13 month old girls stool

[Speed Muma]

My DD has always had green stools. I could literally count on my fingers and say that she had what might be considered *normal* brown/yellow/green stools on a total 5 days in these 13 months.
She is doing OK on her milestones. But she is a tiny baby and weighs about 8 kilos, ot super tall. Just average IMO.
She received BCG, HEP B, Vitamin K shot at birth. Also OPV and DPT 2nd and 4th months. On the day after her birth, the pediatrician checked and noticed..some abdominal mass and swelling on her right side. (my gut thinks that the vaccination damaged it and caused disterss) I stopped vaccinating thereafter.

Anyway, she has never had regular brown stools. She was on BM the first month (according to the doc I didnt produce enough) and she lost weight. So month 2 on she was on BM and Iron fortified formula till date. Month 9 I introduced Goats Milk formula and the stools are the same, just slightly lighter green.

I am at a loss. The reason I post this is because I worry if she has underlying deificiencies that I can't point or if she isn't hitting her full potential.

She only has 1 BM each day. And she always has trouble putting on weight.
When I showed her to a naturopath in Month 9 who asked me to try Goats Milk, she also gave DD some homeopath medicine to increase appetite. She also took a look at DDs stool and thought it was malabsorbed.
How do I go about resolving this?
Thanks much in advance-

[Pat Robinson]

Personally, I'd stop all dairy for 2 weeks minimum and include other nutrients. Have you read about the homemade infant formula? There is a dairy-free version.
Recipes for Whole Food Baby Formula http://www.westonaprice.org/children/recipes.html
FAQs on Homemade Baby Formula (part 1 and 2)
http://www.westonaprice.org/children/formula-faqs.html
http://www.westonaprice.org/children/formula-faqs-pt2.html


This is my "Cliffs Notes" version for health guts. Most could be introduced to baby in some form.

Lemon in water. Bone broth. Epsom salt baths. Then Green juices or broccoli or liver. Then..

Most cost effective alternatives are whole food nutrients.

homemade bone broth every. single. day. 1 cup (MANY nutrients needed for detox, plus minerals)
homemade kefir every. single. day. 1 cup (gradually work up, start with an ounce, increase by 1 ounce a week.) (B vits, enzymes, most probiotics in proper ph)
homemade kombucha every. single. day. (start with an ounce, increase by 1 ounce a month, if no mercury fillings.) (displaces and replaces candida albicans in the gut)

green smoothie every. single. day. day 2 cups (any juice plus any dark leafy greens, rotate produce)
liver one ounce, only three times a week. (B-vits essential for detox)

coconut oil 1 Tbls every. single. day. (medium chain fatty acids, kills candida in the large intestine)
fermented CLO, every. single day. (most expensive item) (vit A, D, K, EFAs)
Bubbies sauerkraut 1 Tbls. every. single. day. (or other raw, fermented food) (probiotics)

Brazil nuts 2 ONLY, every. single. day. (selenium) (I'd wait until closer to age 2 for nuts, but that is me)
Epsom salts a pinch in water, all day long. (magnesium sulfate)
Celtic Sea Salt a pinch in every glass of water, broth. (microminerals)

Lemon juice, fresh squeezed, 1 tsp. in every glass of water or smoothie. (alkalizing to body ph, paradoxically)
Raw local honey, 1 Tbls at bedtime. (helps bifidum bacteria to grow in the gut)
Egg yolk, 1 per day. (if not IgE) (nutrients help to detox)
Vit C, 1000mg, two times a day. (helps to detox)

Total cost about $4 per day.


Hope that helps to get you started. Also, read this thread about healing leaky gut with food. http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/topics/healing-leaky-gut-with-food


Pat

[Speed Muma]

Thanks Pat. So is your thought that she is allergic to dairy?

Although DD and I are vegetarians, plus it doenst help that I livein a vegetarian household, bone broths are impossible right now :( I could, however, introduce egg yolk beginning now, other family members do not mind eggs in the household.

At the same time, I will introduce a lot of the other things mentioned such lemon water, coconut oil, green smoothie etc.
I live in the UAE and hence do not have access to multiple items such as kombucha, kefir grains, bubbies sauerkraut . I will try and make home-made sauerkraut.

[Pat Robinson]

I don't know that she is allergic to dairy. Green stool is often associated with dairy intolerance. Raw milk less often than pasteurized, however. Eliminating all hidden dairy is challenging though. http://www.kellymom.com/store/handouts/concerns/hidden-dairy.pdf Avoiding dairy for 2+ weeks will allow you to see if it may be a culprit. Most often green poop ceases without dairy, ime.

Consider reading about Nutrient-dense foods: http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/topics/nutrient-dense-foods
There are specific nutrients needed for digestion, nutrient absorption and intestinal healing. Glutathione is one which is prevalent in bone broths.

Glutathione levels cannot be increased to a clinically beneficial extent by orally ingesting a single dose of glutathione. This is because glutathione is manufactured inside the cell, from its precursor amino acids, glycine, glutamate and cystine.

glutathione food sources- acorn squash, asparagus, avocado, broccoli, cantaloupe, grapefruit, okra, oranges, peach, potato, spinach, strawberry, watermelon, zucchini, apples, carrots, cauliflower, walnuts, garlic, and raw tomatoes.

Hence food sources or supplements that increase glutathione must either provide the precursors of glutathione, or enhance its production by some other means.

That type of information is in the Nutrient dense food thread about many specific nutrients to include in some source.

Cultures for health ships kefir grains. http://www.culturesforhealth.com/cart.html?m=splash Not sure if she ships internationally though. Dom the Kefir King in Australia does ship also. But, he is way over stretched. http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html Have you asked on the swap forum at Mothering.com? http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=517191

Pat

[Lauren]

My son and I have been working on healing our leaky guts (a major reason for malabsorption and odd stool) utilizing most of Pat's "cliff notes" for healthy guts and moving to a more traditional foods diet. My story is here: http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/topics/healing-leaky-gut-with-food (and there are lots of awesome recommendations there I'd urge you to check out!) We have seen tremendous growth and healing utilizing these strategies, and I would urge you as well to start with them.

Is your dd still nursing? What does her diet aside from breastmilk/formula consist of? What does your diet consist of (esp. those foods you eat on a daily basis)? The most common allergens (from what I've read) seem to be gluten and dairy, and if she is sensitive and you are eating them and nursing this could be causing reactions in her. Could you give us a list of the foods you eat most often? Sometimes sensitivities to certain foods can lead to poor weight gain and abnormal stools. Also, making sure you are preparing foods (esp. grains and beans) in a manner that makes them most easily digestible (soaking overnight or sprouting b/4 cooking, etc.) will really assist in digestion.

I would check out http://greensmoothiegirl.com Her site is vegetarian/vegan friendly and has lots of info on how to prepare foods in a more traditional manner as well (which will increase digestibility which it sounds like your dd may need.)

I would try to make sure you are both getting in lots of *healthy* fats as well--coconut oil, coconut milk, extra virgin olive oil, butter if you tolerate it, (ghee is often tolerated even when dairy is not as it can have casein and lactose removed--we had problems w/ all dairy, even fermented goat milk, but ghee is ok for my ds.) Fats are very healing as well. (We get a lot here from bone broths and various meats as well.) Here is some more info on fats: http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/index.html

On a personal note, I was vegetarian for 12 years, and ds was vegetarian until around 15 months or so--his food sensitivities to gluten, dairy, corn, soy and eggs caused us to go from vegetarian to soy-free vegans quickly! I felt terrible on such a restricted diet and slowly started adding in some animal protein from poultry. When I started adding in bone broths, liver, red meat and fish as well, I started seeing real healing, (and we were able to add back in eggs!) and I think animal foods were a key to all this (along with fermented foods like kraut, kefir, etc. and superfoods like CLO and coconut oil.) I truly believe that my being vegetarian for so long (and a poor one at that) led to multiple vitamin/mineral deficiencies, which led to gut issues in my son (along w/ my own history of many rounds of antibiotics in my early 20s). I really believe it is very difficult to be healthy and vegetarian. If you cannot make bone broth in your home, but are interested in getting some, sometimes farmers who sell meat will also sell the broth. (It is an extremely healing food.) Also, you can buy bone broth online and get it delivered (not sure that you can get things shipped to where you are??) from here: http://www.grasslandbeef.com/Detail.bok?no=963 It is certainly cheapest to make it yourself though. ;)

I am not trying to sway you away from vegetarianism, but just wanted to share my own story. I personally was not healthy as a vegetarian (although I *thought* I was--even though I got strep throat 3x a year for YEARS, and not a winter went by without me getting at least one round of antibiotics or more.) I now feel the amazing difference eating animal foods and other traditional foods can make--I feel vibrant and healthy in a manner I don't remember ever feeling before! We each have our own paths, but I just wanted to share mine, as this has made such a difference in my life!

Good luck figuring out what works best for your dd! This site is an awesome resource, and I'm glad you've come here!

[Lauren]

Fermented vegetables have also been a major key in our healing--if you need help or links on how to make things like kraut and kimchi, just let us know! I *try* to eat a little at every meal, and you absolutely could put some of the juice in your dd's bottle or drinks (even a 1/2 tsp will be helpful). My ds eats them happily as we have always had them--I try to get in 1/8-1/4 cup at each meal. Start slow though--cultured veggies can really get your digestion going!!

This is the method I use and find quite simple: http://www.bodyecologydiet.com/cveggies.php (I never use a starter, just fyi--all I use are veggies, water and jars. ;)

HTH!

Lauren :)

[Speed Muma]

Thanks Lauren. I can definitely start with fermented vegetables. Thank you for sharing your story. I do think that if you are a healthy vegetarian and have been all your life, you can survive well. I have close family and friends who have and continue to do so, because they ALWAYS ate well.. However, NOT I :( Hence, a history of bad teeth, breastfeeding issues and for sometime irregular periods even. It had more to do with stress than diet at the time, however, it IS hard being a healthy vegetarian. I agree with you. I am interested in introducing eggs for my little one, and will start with a poached egg yolk soon. I do have a copy of Nourishing Traditions and recently acquired it. I plan to try the kimchi and sauerkraut and beet kvass soon. Thank you. I will not hesitate to ask questions once I start experimenting in the kitchen. Also, Lauren - yes, I have read some parts of your story on your page discussion. Kudos to you for being so good about this, your son is lucky to have you. I am learning a lot from everyone here. Its great and overwhelming at the same time.

DD self weaned at 7 months or I had really low supply. She is not a good eater like I mentioned before. Not sure what caused what. She only drinks formula, usually about 600-700mls a day. Eats one meal of solid food like oatmeal (soaked overnight in water and ACV), sometimes a little bit of pancake or fruit puree, or avocado, or yogurt. She gets all her food with Ghee/Kerrygold Butter. I also give her probiotics in at least one feed/day. Once a day I also give Nordic Naturals Cod Liver Oil.

Occassionally, if I see that she is super flustered, I give her Baby EyeQ Omega Fish Oils.

I just introduced her to RAW cows milk yesterday, its got to be better than formula. My only concern is that formula has additional vitamins and minerals and raw milk has only its own. Milk is her mainstay right now.

I also give her Vitamin D3 drops by Carlsons.
I am going to slowly introduce egg yolks, green soups or smoothies, fermented veggies now.
I have primarily fed her fruit puree, avocado and Ghee for the first year along with milk. I am going to move to other veggies once I figure out how to get them into her. That is my biggest challenge.

I am also going to observe how she does on RAW milk and if she gest any better?

Is one stool/day very less. Do you think she is eating enough for a 13 month old who weights 8kgs?
Not going by charts, but what milestones/checks/numbers should I consider that she hit to be considred healthy at 18 months. I don't want to go by charts because she is an Asian baby and all charts don't cover that demographic.

[Speed Muma]

Pat, for some reason I am unable to directly reply under your latest post. It keeps reverting back to the first.
Since I have just acquired a source of raw milk, I will try that first and see if it makes a difference with DD. Simultaneously I wil introduce more of gluthaione foods into her diet. I have always given her avocado, but will expand to other tastes like spinach ,strawberry, asparagus. I have already started with lemon water today and she doesn't mind taking a few sips here and there.
Also, last time I have her CO, she didn't do too well and was gassy at night. This was at 8 months. I will try again now. I have also introduced her to nuts after soaking them overnight and grinding them in milk with skins peeled off . She took it okay. Hope I am on the right track. Thanks for the support.

Speed Muma said:

Thanks Pat. So is your thought that she is allergic to dairy?

Although DD and I are vegetarians, plus it doenst help that I livein a vegetarian household, bone broths are impossible right now :( I could, however, introduce egg yolk beginning now, other family members do not mind eggs in the household.

At the same time, I will introduce a lot of the other things mentioned such lemon water, coconut oil, green smoothie etc.
I live in the UAE and hence do not have access to multiple items such as kombucha, kefir grains, bubbies sauerkraut . I will try and make home-made sauerkraut.

[Pat Robinson]

[I believe the forum is set up to display replies chronologically, rather than threaded. It makes it easier to find where you 'left off' reading last. Although, the replies are not attached to the prior post.]

The focus with whole milk is to include folate foods, especially. Folate is lacking in dairy, but essential. Folate is in legumes, beans, lentils, dark leafy greens, (and liver). http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=63

I'd just offer smidgens of the coconut oil repeatedly or mixed with other things like with hummus, smoothies, soup, add to beans, etc as a fat.


Pat

[Lauren]

Wow--you are way ahead of where I was w/ all this stuff! Sounds like you are utilizing traditional, nutrient dense foods already! I think its awesome your doing probitics too! You are already taking lots of steps toward gut healing!

From the list of foods, nothing jumps out at *me* as highly allergenic, although anything can cause problems! Is there corn syrup in her formula? That is a real problem for us which is why I ask...I might try cutting that out for a bit to see if there are any changes, although I completely understand wanting those vitamins. There is a vitamin fortified coconut milk--not sure if you could get it, but it might be a suitable sub? http://www.turtlemountain.com/products/coconut_milk_beverage.html

For calcium I've read folks will add kal dolomite to their milk subs (if milk is a problem). I haven't used it and am not sure it's highly absorbable (although the vits/mins in formula may not be highly absorbed either...) If I were you I might try stopping the formula (and *maybe* dairy as well) to see if it made a difference in her stool (once you get a suitable sub for the milk). My opinion is that gut healing is vital to healing, and to do it we may need to (at least temporarily) avoid foods that cause problems like inflammation in the gut. I think we need to heal the gut so it can absorb the vits/minerals from foods or supping won't really be effective. It's a tough line to walk though when food choices are limited!

And I just wanted to mention, my ds poops 1x a day--whch I think is normal for him. Maybe that is 'normal' for your dd as well? (Not that green isn't something to work on...)

I'm sorry I don't have more to offer--I hope you figure out what is causing this and how to heal it! I've found this link extremely helpful: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=1096747&h... (some of the links on the page may be ones you've already read, but there is tons of helpful info there!)

Lauren :)


>>>Eats one meal of solid food like oatmeal (soaked overnight in water and ACV), sometimes a little bit of pancake or fruit puree, or avocado, or yogurt. She gets all her food with Ghee/Kerrygold Butter. I also give her probiotics in at least one feed/day. Once a day I also give Nordic Naturals Cod Liver Oil.

Occassionally, if I see that she is super flustered, I give her Baby EyeQ Omega Fish Oils.

I just introduced her to RAW cows milk yesterday, its got to be better than formula. My only concern is that formula has additional vitamins and minerals and raw milk has only its own./body>

[Speed Muma]

Aaah Ok. Got it. I'll do that with CO and figure out how to get the gut to heal more by finding some milk substitutes. Although, I really hope it isn't dairy, I am going to figure how to reduce her inflammation. I have read some of the links you suggested earlier on WAP site. I'll see if DH can help out there, since he likes his meat but doesn't eat it too often. Thanks for the prompt help :)

Pat Robinson said:

[I believe the forum is set up to display replies chronologically, rather than threaded. It makes it easier to find where you 'left off' reading last. Although, the replies are not attached to the prior post.]

The focus with whole milk is to include folate foods, especially. Folate is lacking in dairy, but essential. Folate is in legumes, beans, lentils, dark leafy greens, (and liver). http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=63

I'd just offer smidgens of the coconut oil repeatedly or mixed with other things like with hummus, smoothies, soup, add to beans, etc as a fat.


Pat

[Speed Muma]

Thanks Lauren. I will MOST definitely go through these links you recommended because even if I have read it, its hard to remember it all at once. I always miss SOMETHING.
I will also check out the fortified Coconut Milk. Most importantly I need to get going on things I can work on from my kitchen right away. I have only VERY recently adapted a FEW of WAP ways of eating, its hard being vegetarian. I am not even sure if soaking oatmeal is truly helping break phytates down, but its the best I have got right now. Where I live, most NT things are hard to get or are over priced. The fact that I have access to any RAW milk is so encouraging, I am keeping fingers crossed that it works out.
Additionally, I quickly browsed at the greensmoothie girl website. Its exciting how fruits and veggies are mainstay for her and they can help. I am going to work with the tools I now have, and take each day at a time. Again, thanks for your story. I have thoughts of including meat at the back of my mind, I am sure when the time is right, it will kick in and help me - At least I hope!
I'll look into the ingredients and check to see Corn and get back. Thanks!

Lauren said:

Wow--you are way ahead of where I was w/ all this stuff! Sounds like you are utilizing traditional, nutrient dense foods already! I think its awesome your doing probitics too! You are already taking lots of steps toward gut healing!

From the list of foods, nothing jumps out at *me* as highly allergenic, although anything can cause problems! Is there corn syrup in her formula? That is a real problem for us which is why I ask...I might try cutting that out for a bit to see if there are any changes, although I completely understand wanting those vitamins. There is a vitamin fortified coconut milk--not sure if you could get it, but it might be a suitable sub? http://www.turtlemountain.com/products/coconut_milk_beverage.html

For calcium I've read folks will add kal dolomite to their milk subs (if milk is a problem). I haven't used it and am not sure it's highly absorbable (although the vits/mins in formula may not be highly absorbed either...) If I were you I might try stopping the formula (and *maybe* dairy as well) to see if it made a difference in her stool (once you get a suitable sub for the milk). My opinion is that gut healing is vital to healing, and to do it we may need to (at least temporarily) avoid foods that cause problems like inflammation in the gut. I think we need to heal the gut so it can absorb the vits/minerals from foods or supping won't really be effective. It's a tough line to walk though when food choices are limited!

And I just wanted to mention, my ds poops 1x a day--whch I think is normal for him. Maybe that is 'normal' for your dd as well? (Not that green isn't something to work on...)

I'm sorry I don't have more to offer--I hope you figure out what is causing this and how to heal it! I've found this link extremely helpful: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=1096747&h... (some of the links on the page may be ones you've already read, but there is tons of helpful info there!)

Lauren :)


>>>Eats one meal of solid food like oatmeal (soaked overnight in water and ACV), sometimes a little bit of pancake or fruit puree, or avocado, or yogurt. She gets all her food with Ghee/Kerrygold Butter. I also give her probiotics in at least one feed/day. Once a day I also give Nordic Naturals Cod Liver Oil.

Occassionally, if I see that she is super flustered, I give her Baby EyeQ Omega Fish Oils.

I just introduced her to RAW cows milk yesterday, its got to be better than formula. My only concern is that formula has additional vitamins and minerals and raw milk has only its own./body>

[Pat Robinson]

Yes, just take it one step at a time, otherwise you don't know which NEW item may be messing things up. Here is a thread on starting one step at a time and a bunch of food suggestions.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=1121249


Pat